Episode 84: Nicholas Chan, Product Specialist at Taurus, Hunter and Outdoorsman

Nicholas Chan started from the ground up in the firearms industry. He put in years of hard work, and when the opportunity presented itself to do more, he jumped at the chance!
Kenzie Fitzpatrick

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Episode 84

Nicholas Chan started from the ground up in the firearms industry. He put in years of hard work, and when the opportunity presented itself to do more, he jumped at the chance! If you’ve ever attended an industry event and visited the Taurus booth, you’ve probably met Nicholas. He is one of the most friendly folks you’ll meet and is a wealth of knowledge about guns.

Nicholas and I chat about how he ended up where he is today without a college degree, which is a testament to how brilliant and hard-working he is. He talks about his bow hunting experience and the time and effort he has put into learning all there is to about archery. We get into concealed carry and how to learn from a reputable firearms instructor.

About Reticle Up

The Reticle Up Podcast is where our resident competitive shooting expert, 3 Gun Kenzie, interviews competitive shooters, hunters, fisherman, archers, entrepreneurs, and outdoorsmen.

Come learn as she interviews people from all walks of life, in different shooting disciplines, all across the world, from novices to professionals of all ages.

No matter what, everyone has something they can teach you, so join us on the journey.

Be sure to subscribe to the Reticle Up Podcast wherever you get your podcasts from.

Leave us a review online and be sure to follow us on social media! Follow the host at @3gunkenzie on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.

Video Transcription

[music]

0:00:00.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Welcome to the Reticle Up Podcast where I, 3 Gun Kenzie, will be interviewing competitive shooters, hunters, fishermen, archers, entrepreneurs, and outdoorsmen. Come learn with me as I interview people from all walks of life in different disciplines all across the world from novices to professionals of all ages. No matter what, everyone has something they can teach you, so come join me on the journey.

0:00:28.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: The Reticle Up Podcast is produced in partnership with americanfirearms.org. American Firearms’ mission is to recommend what works. We believe everyone deserves access to unbiased helpful information about firearms, and our buying guides, product reviews, and learning resources are designed to help real people find the stuff that will work best for them. Check us out at www.americanfirearms.org.

0:00:53.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Hey everyone, welcome back to the Reticle Up Podcast I’m here with Nicholas Chan. He is a product specialist at Taurus. We actually met on the range. I’m really excited that you finally decided to come join me today.

0:01:05.2 Nicholas Chan: I’m super stoked too. I love having my face on the Internet.

0:01:08.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I was gonna say that was so sarcastic. [laughter] Oh man. So, yeah, I wanna know like, going back before Taurus and everything, was your path always going towards the firearm industry or what did you wanna do growing up?

0:01:19.9 Nicholas Chan: So, originally I wanted to work in law enforcement and specifically I wanted to work with Florida Fish and Wildlife, ’cause I like animals too. I like being outside. And then, I started working at a… As a security guard at a gun show and then from there I started working behind gun counters just to make some extra money here and there and just little by little we went from selling guns to opening gun shops to opening gun ranges to doing like the online stuff with like, GunMag Warehouse and stuff like that and then I ended up at Taurus, just kinda all trickled in. Yeah.

0:01:50.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Did you get a college degree or high school or what?

0:01:53.2 Nicholas Chan: No, I have a high school degree. I just worked my butt off.

0:01:55.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s awesome. That’s the way to do it. I think that nowadays, especially with like, the online learning Academy of YouTube, you don’t need to have that college degree. I certainly wouldn’t do it this day and age. That’s impressive.

0:02:07.4 Nicholas Chan: I’m a firm believer in the, you’ll never outwork me, mind state.

0:02:09.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Same. Yep. Yep.

0:02:11.9 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:02:12.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: What did that take actually for you to get there? Like, when you talk about hard work, what does that look like for someone?

0:02:19.0 Nicholas Chan: Doing everything that everybody else doesn’t wanna do. So you’ll hear this phrase like, whenever anybody is at any job you’ll hear, “Oh they don’t pay me to do that.” And the answer… My answer to people that say that is, “And they never will.”

0:02:30.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:02:31.7 Nicholas Chan: It’s that simple. Like, as long as you’re willing to go the extra mile… I’m trying to remember who quoted this, but basically, you can’t be great and go unnoticed. That’s not how that works. Like, when people talk about how like, “Oh I was so good at this and it just didn’t work out for me,” it’s like, “You probably weren’t.”

[chuckle]

0:02:47.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I love this honest truth bomb drop in here.

[laughter]

0:02:49.2 Nicholas Chan: Let’s be honest.

0:02:50.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. It’s funny, my mom’s flower shop I learned very hard work. I mopped the floors and cleaned the bathroom, but that’s part of the job and I was opening a business you know, for my mom, but yeah, that taught me it’s exactly what owners do.

[chuckle]

0:03:02.0 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. No, it’s…

[chuckle]

0:03:05.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: It’s crazy. Okay. So yeah, Taurus, like, how how long have you been there and and what do you do summed up?

0:03:15.9 Nicholas Chan: So, I started working there four years ago as a customer service agent and I already had a background working in gun ranges and doing gunsmithing and stuff like that. And their repairs department at the time had fallen behind a bit and I saw opportunity for overtime. I was like, hey, I’m a qualified RSO, I can shoot guns. So I come in early in the morning, shoot guns all morning, then I answer phones in the afternoon and then come in the in the afternoon after my afternoon shift and clean guns all day. And it was like, I was used to working long hours anyways, but… Sorry, crop duster flying over. [laughter] I was used to working long hours anyways, I just thought it was cool that I was getting paid to do something I liked and it was better money than what you’d make at gun stores, you know?

0:03:54.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh, yeah.

0:03:56.3 Nicholas Chan: So now, fast forward, I work in the product… I’m a product specialist in the engineering department and basically my job is helping us in product development whenever we’re coming out with a new product. Basically, our engineering team in Brazil, our engineering team here stateside brings me a product, we end up putting it through its paces, whether it’s function testing or torture testing or whatever it is and then trying to see what things we need to change, what features we need to add, etcetera, etcetera, and then see what you know, lifespan of a product is and then what kinda support we need to give it in the long run?

0:04:25.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Okay. So, are you shooting these like, full auto, with suppressors, with like, you know, [0:04:29.3] ____ ammo? What does that look like?

0:04:31.1 Nicholas Chan: We’ll do… Typically we do 10 plus different types of ammo. If it’s a suppressed gun then we’ll take it 20,000, 40,000 rounds suppressed.

0:04:39.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Wow.

0:04:40.8 Nicholas Chan: You know? Yeah, we’ll… So in the beginning, you really wanna eliminate as many variables as possible to help tweak, like, fine tweak all of small components on the guns. So you wanna do like, high rates of cleaning and like, significant cooldown periods. And then, as you progress and you make those micro adjustments for whatever variables or parts there might be in, then you start spreading out how much… How often you clean it. You start spreading out, how often you cool it and then you start inducing more and more factors to see where its failure point reaches, ’cause all guns fail.

0:05:10.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yep. Yep.

0:05:10.9 Nicholas Chan: I don’t care if it’s a $20 pistol or a $5,000 pistol, they are machines, they are going to fail. And it is our job to find where that failure point is, adjust and then be better, you know?

[chuckle]

0:05:22.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh yeah. I’ve had someone tell me like, “Oh well, your gun will fail, therefore, this can’t qualify.” And I was like, hold on. But you’re judging me on something that will fail, so will yours. It’s all the same. It doesn’t matter what they are or where they are, it’s… Oh my gosh, thank you for saying that. Nobody listens to me on that one.

[chuckle]

0:05:36.3 Nicholas Chan: No, what I…

0:05:38.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Unless your gun is sitting in a safe that long, you know, and you never touch it. It’s like, come on.

[chuckle]

0:05:42.9 Nicholas Chan: I like… So, I personally… I got a Taurus G3. I used to run Smith & Wesson M&Ps. They’re one of my favorite handguns. Just ergonomics and stuff, that’s something I’ve used for a long time. And I was shooting at a competition with it and someone at the competition was like, oh, look, even the Taurus guy doesn’t run a Taurus. And I was like, it’s the Indian, not the bow, my friend, you know like… [chuckle] So, during that same time period we had just come out with our new Taurus G3 and I went, I grabbed one off the line, I took it home. That Taurus right now has like, 22 or 23,000 rounds through it.

0:06:13.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Wow.

0:06:14.9 Nicholas Chan: You know, like, I shot out that barrel at like 10,000 rounds, which is not bad for a handgun. Like, a 10,000 little… A barrel that gets a 10,000 rounds on a handgun, it’s great.

0:06:23.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:06:23.0 Nicholas Chan: And I’ve been shooting that gun and it’s like, now people see me shooting and they’re like, “Oh, what gun is that?” “Taurus, bro.” But nobody complains. Like, whenever you buy… And you gotta think like, our guns are extremely affordable. We have a ton of aftermarket support for these firearms and it’s like, $300 bucks. You know, most people see a gun and it’s like, a 9 millimeter pistol is a 9 millimeter pistol is a 9 millimeter pistol.

0:06:46.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right.

0:06:46.9 Nicholas Chan: There’s no difference in them, especially when you’re a first-time gun owner.

0:06:50.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:06:51.3 Nicholas Chan: But when you start looking at accessories, accessories matter, right? ‘Cause there’s a big difference between like a surefire or you know, some Chinese knockoff light.

0:06:56.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh yeah.

0:06:58.2 Nicholas Chan: Or even optics or stuff like that. So, I like to be able… I like the fact that our company provides people with a handgun that’s extremely affordable, right? So, it’s an entry-level handgun and honestly, if you’re even a higher level shooter, you’re not gonna be disappointed what the gun can offer you. And it’s a good gun. But then you have these people that buy $5,000 handguns. I’m not gonna name any brands, right? Like, they buy $4000 or $5000 handguns and they tell them, you can’t take it apart within the first 500 rounds because then you can’t put it back together. And then it’s gonna jam and you literally have to invest 500 rounds worth of your ammunition to break it in.

0:07:35.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right. Right.

0:07:35.6 Nicholas Chan: But nobody complains that they just spent $3000 or $4000 or $5000 on a gun that they have to break in with 500 rounds of their own ammo. But then their $300 gun has a single stovepipe with you know, what’s this thing called…

0:07:47.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Rimfire or something.

0:07:50.3 Nicholas Chan: With Rimfire or reload ammo…

0:07:51.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:07:51.9 Nicholas Chan: And they’re like, this is stupid. So I said $300 pistol, it’s like, bro, it’s not how any of this works.

[chuckle]

0:07:54.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. I’ve seen all… Every brand, every single brand have issues, doesn’t matter what it is. So, fire [0:08:00.2] ____.

0:08:00.3 Nicholas Chan: After all…

0:08:00.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:08:00.5 Nicholas Chan: It’s a machine. It’s a machine.

0:08:01.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. So, can you talk about… Or like, did you make any changes with the guns that you were testing and stuff? Like, did you give feedback and actually were you the person behind maybe a tweak that was made or a change that was made or anything like that?

0:08:16.1 Nicholas Chan: So like, my favorite gun that I’ve helped development with, was the triple black, was the Rossi triple black. It was the… So I was always a fan of 357 mag, like in a lever gun, just because I thought it was cool. And I thought.44 mag was overkill and I was like, [laughter] nobody needs a.44 mag, that’s so unnecessary. And we ended up going out to Texas with a buddy of mine, Wade Miller, just a ranch hand. Now we’re talking about a ranch hand dude, all this dude does is drive around, upkeep this high fence trophy farm with just the biggest bucks you’ll ever see in your life. And he kills pigs, so that they don’t mess with the animals there on the farm.

0:08:56.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yep.

0:08:57.0 Nicholas Chan: He told me.44 mag is the way to go. It’s the only thing that helps keep… Keeps doggos alive, because the second the dogs hear the gunshots they attack the hog because they gain confidence, all that good stuff. And like, his lever gun had no sling loops. It wasn’t suppressor ready, it was missing padding. So every time you throw it up, you’d see that… Him shooting the gun. The gun’s just like, sliding on and off of his shoulder. The old buckhorn sights, no Picatinny on it so couldn’t mount any optics on it, no lights, nothing. And then I started looking around, I’m like, man, they don’t make any lever guns in the industry with sling loops.

0:09:31.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:09:32.9 Nicholas Chan: Like, something as stupid as that, like, how am I supposed to carry this gun around, like this gun that I’m supposed to hunt with? And that’s where you see like that detachment from engineers and shooters like…

0:09:41.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:09:42.2 Nicholas Chan: The engineer is like, “I made a great gun.” It’s like, “I can’t carry it anywhere bro, so what’s the point of it?”

[laughter]

0:09:49.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: And that’s when the aftermarket sport gets even better, ’cause they’re like, doing these slings that attach and hook around itself. And this is not… Yeah.

0:09:54.7 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. And then the companies wanna get upset that the aftermarket company came up with it. It’s like, why don’t you just do it the right the first time, then we wouldn’t have this issue? You know? [laughter] There isn’t a single gun company in the industry that doesn’t pay shooters.

0:10:08.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:10:08.7 Nicholas Chan: To shoot for them, but they never call their shooters to ask them what they need.

0:10:12.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: There are a lot that do, but there are a very, very, very [laughter] more that don’t. Yeah, ’cause…

0:10:18.2 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, they’re just like, you have all these dudes on payroll and you don’t call them to ask them what’s up? Like, hey, you know I might need this or that.

0:10:22.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: It’s crazy. It’s crazy. And that’s… That is the disconnect. And it’s funny, ’cause like, some companies will be like, “Oh well, we’ve got shooters that we test with.” Or like, “Our internal team are shooters.” So I was like, 500 rounds a year shooters or like, 50,000 rounds a year shooters?

0:10:37.0 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

[chuckle]

0:10:38.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Wide difference. But like, you see like… I mean, Jessie is testament to Taurus for sure too, ’cause like, shooting with her at World Shoot, she used the TX22 and it’s just so fun to shoot by the way, I love that gun so much.

0:10:48.7 Nicholas Chan: And she’s a huge hunter too.

0:10:51.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:10:52.2 Nicholas Chan: Jessie is a a big-time hunter too. And then her… Casey. Casey is also a really big hunter, really big shooter, and he… And they’re both no BS people like, they’re not… They don’t fake the funk man, like, they’re about it.

0:11:04.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:11:05.0 Nicholas Chan: I love that.

0:11:05.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I wanna be them when I grow up. [laughter] Like, if I can afford a hunt that they do, just one of them, I’d be very happy.

0:11:13.4 Nicholas Chan: Now, I’m telling you, they’re like… And they’re some of the hardest working people I’ve ever met. Like, they are always on top of the ball. I love them.

0:11:17.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Absolutely. Me too. They’re fun to shoot with. I got to shoot with them recently this year at area 5 that was a blast. That’s awesome. Okay. I wanted to talk about Heritage Manufacturing too. A lot of people don’t actually know about that brand.

0:11:30.1 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:11:30.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: You wanna give a little bit of background about that as well?

0:11:32.9 Nicholas Chan: So, I don’t remember the whole background story of how we purchased them, but we ended up purchasing them. And we make Heritage 100% in-house.

0:11:40.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Cool.

0:11:41.4 Nicholas Chan: So, Taurus is imported from Brazil and some of the guns are made in the US, like the GX4 is US made, the TX22 is US made. But the Heritage is a 100% US made. It’s a 100% US made gun. And it’s basically just an affordable single-action revolver that like, you know, hence those cowboy action knows that every American should have.

0:12:00.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup. You’d love this. It’ll be out next year but I just finished an article about cowboy action shooting today. [laughter] So I gotta talk about my experience, it was funny, ’cause I was going through the archives… Like, I started shooting this in 2017. I was like, holy cow, like, looking at the old photos and old matches, I was like, I really missed that game. It’s fun. Like, you said… And I wrote like, America single action shooter. [laughter] Oh man. So, for you like, if you had to choose one gun, is it gonna go with a wheel gun or semi-auto?

0:12:30.2 Nicholas Chan: For what?

0:12:32.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I don’t know, the rest of your life.

0:12:35.6 Nicholas Chan: What’s the scenario? Is it like the end of the… Is it the end of the world or is it like…

0:12:38.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Scenario, you can only buy any one.

0:12:39.1 Nicholas Chan: You’re dropping me off in a country…

[laughter]

0:12:41.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: No, no, it’s like, you personally, you can only have one for pure happiness for the rest of your life.

0:12:46.7 Nicholas Chan: For pure happiness, the rest of my life. It’s probably gonna be an AR-15.

0:12:50.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh it’s not a wheel gun?

[laughter]

0:12:51.8 Nicholas Chan: No.

[laughter]

0:12:53.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: [0:12:53.7] ____ pistol.

[laughter]

0:12:54.4 Nicholas Chan: No, no, I’ll have a rifle. Your pistol is to get to your rifle. Like, that is that simple. [laughter] Like, I view guns primarily for defense. Like, I don’t view them for competition. I don’t view them for hunting. My guns in my mind they’re primarily defense focused and then everything else goes around that.

0:13:12.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Okay. Let’s go into that whole, whole spiel. So, a lot of people, and I’ve been in gun stores too, like, trying to buy a gun, will try to sell you on something or try to tell you oh, like, you should buy this. And it’s like, for what purpose? And that’s one of the most frustrating things. It’s like, I’m going in here, don’t tell me what I’m trying to buy when I know why I’m buying it. It’s for a class, it’s for competition, it’s for self-defense.

0:13:32.2 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:13:32.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Can you talk about like the… Maybe the buckets or categories that people should own when it comes to firearms, like you said, defensive, maybe tactics, maybe home defense. Like, what does that look like?

0:13:41.8 Nicholas Chan: So, when I’m thinking of a defensive gun, you want a gun with a good track record, right? You want a gun with a good track record that’s within your price range, because there is a gun that has a good track record within any price point, whether you wanna spend $2000 or $300, there’s a gun that will meet that. You also wanna find a gun that’s gonna provide you with a significant amount of aftermarket support, because if you want a defensive pistol and you can’t find a holster for it, plug in our people at UM Tactical [laughter] and you wanna, how do you call it, use… You know, have a holster for it, you can buy another $200 handgun and not be able to find a single holster for it.

0:14:22.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:14:22.4 Nicholas Chan: You wanna be able to have a handgun that you can put a light on, because you can’t see what you can’t shoot. I mean, you can’t shoot what you can’t see, right?

0:14:28.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup. You can’t. The same thing, but yeah.

[laughter]

0:14:34.7 Nicholas Chan: You want a pistol, you can put a light on and then if you feel that, if you wear glasses, if you’re older in age, any of these things get a Red Dot.

0:14:42.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:14:42.8 Nicholas Chan: Especially if you’re a new shooter where you’ve never had iron sight training, just skip all of it, go straight to a Red Dot. That’s what I think.

0:14:50.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Red Dot is the best tool for training, ’cause you actually can see like, “Oh I pulled that to the left. Oh, that went this way.” Like, iron sight, it’s still there, but you can’t diagnose like that.

0:15:00.9 Nicholas Chan: And then you’re talking about your variance and missing, right? Like, your front sight typically covers 25 MOA, which is 25 inches at 100 yards.

0:15:09.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Huge.

0:15:10.2 Nicholas Chan: Your Red Dot’s covering two or six MOA, which is two or six inches at 100 yards. So if you miss left or right with your dot, it’s significantly less than you’re missing left or right with your your front sight on your iron sights.

0:15:21.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup. Yup. It’s hard to see too, like, for competition, my front sight is actually skinnier too than my rear sight, ’cause I wanna be able to see it between. A lot of regular like polymer guns don’t come like that.

0:15:31.4 Nicholas Chan: No. And that’s… I’ve always ran like a U-notch rear with a fiber optic skinny front that’s always been my go-to sight picture. And then I had to unlearn irons and do Red Dots, because Red Dots are target focused instead of, you know…

0:15:46.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: 100%.

0:15:46.9 Nicholas Chan: Sight focused.

0:15:49.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:15:50.2 Nicholas Chan: So it’s just significantly better for defensive shooting, right?

0:15:51.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:15:52.1 Nicholas Chan: You’re being… We’re talking defensive shooting. You’re not somebody who’s looking to compete every week and you’re not looking to put tens of thousands of rounds a year. You’re probably gonna take one or two classes or maybe just one, get a Red Dot dry fire.

0:16:05.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, I love that. Okay. So we covered defensive guns, what about like, hunting, competition, like, how are these all different from each other?

0:16:12.6 Nicholas Chan: So, that’s where you know the difference. Competition isn’t just about who can shoot the fastest, right? It’s also about who has the coolest gear. So this is where you get to get into the whole like… This is like people who build cars or people who build boats or… Like, it’s not supposed to work a 100% of the time. You want it to, right? Like, you really wish that your gun, you take it out there and it’s gonna perform amazing, but at the end of the day you screwed around with it, because it is your toy gun, it is your build and you’re, you know, tweaking things here and there. And one day you put the trigger at a pound and a half and the next day it’s at seven pounds and it’s just… You know, you’re doing all these things to your gun that you’re not supposed to, you voided your warranty 13 times over.

[laughter]

0:16:54.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Warranty is a big deal. Yeah.

0:16:56.4 Nicholas Chan: You know like, [chuckle] this gun, this gun is a 100% your responsibility. That is the competition gun. That is where you have all the fun in the world. You put all the colors, bells, whistles, everything. [laughter] That’s how I classify a competition.

0:17:08.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: If it ain’t [0:17:09.5] ____ then it’s not a competition.

[laughter]

0:17:13.5 Nicholas Chan: Like, there’s people that get paid to do competition, right? But the majority don’t. They just do it as like a weekend hobby. It’s no different than having like a set of golf clubs. This is what that’s for, you know? And then, that’s competition for me. I literally [0:17:28.3] ____ the competition for me a 110%.

0:17:28.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I like that definition. I’m gonna go with that next time someone asked me.

0:17:32.3 Nicholas Chan: ‘Cause it doesn’t matter, man, like, you have these dudes that are like, you can get into the technical aspects of 9 millimeter and the point systems that you get from different grainage and like…

0:17:41.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right.

0:17:42.1 Nicholas Chan: It’s such a rabbit hole of different types of competition, different types of shooting, different types of, you know, classifications like… But in general, the… It’s all… The spiel for everything is the same thing, whether you’re doing three gun PRS, IPSC, like, all that stuff, it’s exactly the same.

0:18:00.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: It’s Indian, not the arrow, always.

0:18:01.6 Nicholas Chan: It’s Indian, not the arrow, always.

0:18:03.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I love it. I love it.

[chuckle]

0:18:05.4 Nicholas Chan: And then, hunting wise, hunting you wanna… This is where you get… You don’t have to worry as much of the reliability. Like for me, I want a gun that I can shoot extremely well with. I’m gonna give myself every cheat in the book that I can to be able to make myself as efficient as possible with this firearm.

0:18:26.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:18:27.1 Nicholas Chan: So like, if I’m shooting a bolt gun, I’m gonna have the lightest trigger I can get away with, right? I’m gonna have the most accurate barrel… Like, I wanna eliminate everything out of my variables of what can go wrong other than what the animal is gonna do. Like, everything that I can control, I will control, because there’s already too many things I can’t.

0:18:44.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:18:46.4 Nicholas Chan: Right?

0:18:47.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:18:47.4 Nicholas Chan: So, the reason why I say reliability is not that big a deal when it comes to hunting gun is because, reliability technically is measured by how much abuse you can put on a gun, like, rounds through it and stuff like that. You’re not doing that with your hunting gun. Like, you’re not putting tens of thousands of rounds through your hunting rifle.

0:19:02.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right. Right. Yeah. That might be once a year.

[laughter]

0:19:04.3 Nicholas Chan: You might shoot like, a hundred rounds a year…

0:19:07.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:19:08.1 Nicholas Chan: Right, through your hunting rifle, but you’re gonna make them as perfect as possible.

0:19:13.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: 100%, yeah. And your experience and background has always been with gun hunting, right?

0:19:20.9 Nicholas Chan: Yes.

0:19:22.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Okay. I know we’re gonna head towards the bow in a bit here. [chuckle] So, what’s been your favorite hunt that you’ve ever gone on? How did you learn how to hunt and all of that knowledge?

0:19:33.8 Nicholas Chan: So, I’m learning how to hunt right now, because hunting in South Florida is not hunting. It’s pest control and it’s kinda like, it’s guaranteed and it’s pretty whack.

0:19:44.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I thought you’re in Georgia.

0:19:46.8 Nicholas Chan: I am in Georgia, but I’m saying like, that’s where I started, I started hunting in South Florida.

0:19:48.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.

0:19:49.7 Nicholas Chan: In central Florida, close so LaBelle area.

0:19:52.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:19:52.2 Nicholas Chan: And it’s like, these guys have feeders out, the pigs show up at the same time every day, they leave every afternoon like… It is like clockwork. There’s no wondering if the animal’s gonna show up? It’s literally like, hey, there’s this designer pig out there, he’s got spots on him, he needs to go. You go out there, you shoot him and you go home. Like it’s…

0:20:12.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh my god.

0:20:13.5 Nicholas Chan: And we used to do the same thing with like, coyotes and sugarcane fields. We put predator calls out and shoot them down shooting lanes and sugarcane fields like, it was as guaranteed of a hunting as it gets.

0:20:24.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right. And people don’t know about hogs and all that and just invasive species that…

0:20:30.5 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:20:30.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: You know, they’re always anti-gun people mostly, but they’re like, why are you killing all these animals? It’s like, you don’t understand they’re killing crops, they’re actually killing the people that… Or the animals that we want to have, to harvest, but yeah. They just short land completely.

0:20:42.8 Nicholas Chan: A sound like… You can literally have a small sound of hogs, which is like, maybe a dozen pigs, and they’ll clear out 10 acres in a night. Like, they are literally… And you’ll go through there and it looks like a machine tilled up all that land.

0:20:55.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yep.

0:20:56.4 Nicholas Chan: And little did you know that the farmer actually had that like, freshly planted the week before, and these hogs just came through there and ate all their seeds.

0:21:02.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Super depressing for farmers in Florida, especially.

0:21:06.0 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, it’s tens of thousands of dollars that they’re losing every year. And like, most people don’t know, farmers plant every year on loans.

0:21:13.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:21:14.1 Nicholas Chan: So like, they’re loaned the specific amount of money and then they’re expected this return. And if any of that’s diminished, then they’re not getting that back and they still owe this loan to be able to pay it off.

0:21:21.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right.

0:21:22.0 Nicholas Chan: So until they don’t sell their crops, they can’t pay that loan and whatever’s leftover on that is what they actually get to take home.

0:21:28.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:21:29.5 Nicholas Chan: So a lot of farmers don’t know what they have until the end of the year, like, it’s rough. And you have these pigs that just go through there and are decimating that area.

0:21:36.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup. Yup.

0:21:37.8 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:21:38.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. So you’re still learning. I know that… We’ll digress a little bit. Still learning to hunt, but…

0:21:45.3 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. The deer stuff is something else. Like deer hunting… ‘Cause there’s so many ways to go about it. The animals characteristics are so different regionally, right? Like it’s… It’s one of those things where if you like the outdoors it’s interesting, because it kinda takes… It makes you really rethink how animals work, because as humans and living in cities and stuff like that we kinda wanna make sense of everything to a fault. [chuckle] You know? And then we’re looking at like, these creatures live such simple lives that you’re trying to glue it all together and it’s like, oh, he must be going over here ’cause of this. It’s like, why would he go over there, he’s lying in a bed. [laughter] Like, he literally can eat anything that is green, why wouldn’t he just lay there and eat the grass around him instead of walking a quarter mile to where you put corn out?

0:22:33.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’d be a lazy deer for sure.

0:22:36.0 Nicholas Chan: This is what I’m saying like, [laughter] and it’s stupid things like that. And then like, my favorite quotes from Fred Bear. Fred Bear has a quote that says, “Hunt where the deer are, not where you think they are.”

0:22:49.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:22:49.3 Nicholas Chan: That is literally deer hunting in a nutshell. Like…

[laughter]

0:22:51.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: And then the ones in Alabama can confirm are like, really stupid. [laughter] Really stupid.

[chuckle]

0:23:00.1 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, that’s what’s rough. I just… And it’s like… And a lot of these dudes… Like, these dudes out here, they might not be like, super well-spoken individuals, you know? They’re like, call them redneck country ass boys, you know?

0:23:11.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh, yeah.

0:23:12.9 Nicholas Chan: But they grew up deer hunting. Like, these dudes look at stuff like… I went out to the woods with one of these dudes one day and they were like, you see the leaves out here, they’re upside down. It’s like, how the hell is a leaf upside down that’s on the ground? You know, like, these leaves fell from a tree, hit the ground and this dude’s now telling me that they’re upside down, so something must have walked through here. I’m like, yeah, no, I don’t know what the hell you’re looking at, but okay. So he had to sit there and dumb it down for me like, you see how one side’s moist and the other side isn’t, that’s because this side’s been on the ground longer than this side. I’m like, I would never, never, never in the history of ever would I have thought of that.

0:23:49.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I think where people forget, seriously forget things is that, for a lot of those people, like, that is their livelihood for the entire year. It’s not… Like, they… A lot of people grew up poor. A lot of people learned how to skin deer out of necessity and there’s still people in 2022 that is having to hunt for their food. So it’s become second nature to them. We’re also losing those skills. Like, you and I, we wanna hunt, we appreciate hunting, we appreciate the animal. We don’t make that kill, but it’s like, I still don’t know next to anything about hunting and I wish I did, but where would I learn it? And you got lucky finding the rednecks, [laughter] but seriously like, that stuff’s not gonna be passed down for generations.

0:24:30.1 Nicholas Chan: No. And it’s a shame like, I was at deer camp this weekend actually, and I’m talking to this dude. And he’s telling me how his son’s not really into what he does. Like, his son’s into video games and stuff. And he’s like, “He’s a 28-year-old man, he’s out there playing kids games. So you know what it is to call these things adult cartoons? What the hell’s an adult cartoon? Why aren’t you outside?” [laughter] I couldn’t stop laughing, at the same time you think about it, it’s like, man, there’s dudes nowadays, they don’t know how to change a tire, can’t change their oil, don’t know how to use a drill. Like, do man shit, you know, you gotta go outside and do man shit.

0:25:02.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: You just listed three things that I do on the regular. I actually need to change my oil again, but yeah, yeah.

0:25:08.7 Nicholas Chan: That’s what I’m saying.

0:25:11.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Not even man shit, but just like, self-independent shit.

[laughter]

0:25:16.4 Nicholas Chan: Yes, but I mean like, I hold men responsible for their BS. It’s like…

0:25:22.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. I love it.

0:25:22.8 Nicholas Chan: If you’re a dude, you better be doing dude stuff. You know how Pat McNamara like… [laughter] I’m trying to remember, what does he call it? Yeah, I think he calls it dude stuff.

0:25:31.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Dude stuff. Okay. For real.

0:25:35.8 Nicholas Chan: If you’re a man you should know how to do this stuff, if you don’t, I have a problem with you. [laughter] It’s just that simple.

0:25:39.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I agree, I agree. If I can do something he can’t, we got problems.

0:25:43.4 Nicholas Chan: Exactly. I’m not saying women shouldn’t be doing this stuff, like, none of that. I’m saying this dude should have been doing this from the get.

0:25:49.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, yeah, that’s funny though. Okay, hunting, hunting. Okay, so…

0:25:54.6 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:25:54.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Bow. So I know that you got set up with your bow and haven’t shot anything yet, but I really wanna dive into archery, because a lot of people don’t understand the process of getting fitted for a bow, what does that mean? So, do you wanna go over the basics, like, as detailed as possible for someone listening that would wanna go and get a bow set up to them?

0:26:11.0 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, so I suggest there is no such thing as a bad bow in the market today, right? Like, for the most part, even with guns, it’s like that where you’d legitimately have to go out of your way to go buy a crappy bow. Like, you’d have to go on Alibaba, wait three months of shipping to get a poor quality bow or firearm. It’s just one of those things. And you gotta pay to play, it’s not a cheap sport, right? Like, archery isn’t inexpensive by any means.

0:26:39.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: But retrievable ammo, I am a fan of.

0:26:44.5 Nicholas Chan: Yes. But you can easily get into archery for like, $500 bucks. With $500, I suggest just go into the store, buying a bow that’s within your price range that you can afford, right? And then buying a complete kit. They usually sell the bows and complete kits with the sight already on it. I suggest going with a multi-pin sight with two to three pins and just zeroing them at 25, 35, 50, whatever and getting the poundage as low as to where you could comfortably draw it. Don’t worry so much about…

0:27:16.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: [0:27:17.2] ____.

0:27:17.6 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. Don’t worry so much about like, trying to draw 70 pounds right off the gate. Like, there’s plenty of dudes that are taking deers with 45… You know, 45 pound bows, like, [0:27:25.2] ____.

[overlapping conversation]

0:27:25.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I’m at like 55, I’m not doing 75 at any time I think in my life.

0:27:30.1 Nicholas Chan: That’s what I’m saying. [chuckle] So, you get into that, then the other thing you wanna… Like, what I was talking about before, process of elimination, you wanna be able to give yourself the best benefit of the doubt as possible. So, pay for those higher quality arrows, right? Like, you could buy cheap Walmart arrows or you could spend $15 an arrow.

0:27:50.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:27:51.9 Nicholas Chan: And that’s what it is. So, whatever, you go to your bow shop, you pick out your bow, make sure you go to a reputable bow shop that does the fittings and cuttings and everything there on the spot.

0:28:00.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Before you go into the that…

0:28:01.0 Nicholas Chan: Go with the best.

0:28:02.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s what I want you to go into, is like, how they measure your arm span and how they put the sight where it’s supposed to be with your nose and everything lined up, right?

0:28:12.6 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:28:13.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s what people don’t know. You can’t just go, buy a bow off the shelf, if you have nothing… Like, no clue about what it is. You can, you can’t, but like…

0:28:22.3 Nicholas Chan: Here’s the thing like, buy the bow that fits your budget, right? Like, that stuff, your bowsmith they’re at your… Is that what it is called, bowsmith? Yeah, bowsmith.

0:28:32.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I don’t know.

[laughter]

0:28:33.4 Nicholas Chan: I think they’re called bowsmiths.

0:28:36.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Okay. We’re gonna go with that.

0:28:37.1 Nicholas Chan: Your bowsmith is the one that adjusts that for you, right? Like, then when you wanna go into getting like, a certain size peep that’s gonna be able to fit your eye better and you want the kisser button to be able… He’s gonna be able to line you up with that and like, talk to them, tell them what you want. ‘Cause at the end of the day everybody is different, right? But just getting your foot through the door, like, buy a bow kit.

0:28:57.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:28:58.4 Nicholas Chan: Just buy a kit bow, doesn’t matter the brand, right? Like, brands don’t matter, but just don’t do it… And I hate to say it, because you know, we gotta get sponsored by Bass Pro at some point, right? [laughter] But don’t do it at Bass Pro.

[laughter]

0:29:12.1 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, yeah, no, I went to a custom shop up in Kentucky. I drove like, I don’t know, two, three hours to just get fitted by a professional that [0:29:18.1] ____ for a long time, so that’s the one in the background here, but yeah, I wanna do it right. Like, again, I fit my budget, I knew my budget, which is a little bit higher, but I really wanted to get it right the first time, because I do know that I do wanna go hunting with it. And I do know that I need to know that bow inside and out, like you said, to eliminate all the variables and make a clean kill. I do not wanna hurt an animal, you know, that doesn’t go down, so.

0:29:40.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, 100%. And it’s like, the most important thing and the hardest part is finding a good bow shop.

0:29:47.5 Nicholas Chan: Yup. [0:29:49.0] ____ really is.

0:29:49.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right? Like, that is the hardest thing, finding a good bow shop, ’cause they’re far and few, a big box retail store is not gonna cut it for you. Bows aren’t like guns, you can’t order them on the Internet. They’re not gonna show up to your house. And it’s… Their marketing and everything is still pretty archaic, so it is still as mom and pop as it gets.

0:30:08.1 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. So, I know we’re gonna dive into it later, but it’s almost like vetting your firearms instructor, same thing. And it’s like going into a gun counter and knowing more than the person at the gun counter, that’s the exact same thing as the big box retailers for archery, in my opinion.

0:30:19.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, 100%.

0:30:20.7 Nicholas Chan: The arrows too, like, I was getting different grain weights and then I had my arrows cut and you have to make sure that the spine is, you know, certain weight, as well. So like, all of that stuff that people don’t understand about bows, I don’t know if you wanna explain some of that that you’ve learned to test that.

0:30:34.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. So, you’re… When you’re buying your arrows you’re gonna buy them… In the back of the box, they’re gonna have different grains on them, right? Whether it’s… Typically it’ll be like, 300, 350, 400. That’s usually like, where I’m at. And then it’ll say, you’ll need a 350 grain arrow or a 350 spine arrow for whatever amount of inches your arrows are cut to. So your arrows are cut when you draw back, your bowsmith’s gonna measure how far forward you want your Broadhead to where your rest is at. And then basically, that length carbon to carbon is the length of your… Of the arrows that you need cut in the box. And with that length you shop on what your spine is at.

0:31:16.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:31:16.9 Nicholas Chan: And you need the correct spine, ’cause if not, your arrow is either gonna blow up or it’s gonna wobble like a noodle in flight and you’re gonna be shooting off the entire time.

0:31:28.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:31:29.3 Nicholas Chan: I recommend if you start off, don’t worry about that. Like, I kid you not, go to the store and just have the money to be able to pay the guy to tell you what to buy.

[laughter]

0:31:40.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Did you guys see like the close-up terra test as well?

0:31:45.5 Nicholas Chan: Yes.

0:31:46.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:31:46.3 Nicholas Chan: That’s what I’m saying, when you first get into it like…

0:31:47.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: You don’t know anything.

0:31:48.7 Nicholas Chan: You don’t know anything. Like, you don’t know what you don’t know, right?

0:31:51.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:31:52.0 Nicholas Chan: So it’s not till you start… It’s not till you get your bow in your hand and you start shooting with it and you go from one week shooting bullseyes to the next week, all of a sudden having your entire grouping drifting to the left. And then, you go to the shop, they fix it or correct whatever you think you were doing and you start shooting again and then you develop a flinch or a target panic and your arrows are going everywhere you don’t understand why. And then you end up having to buy a different release for that. And then like, it’s just all these little variables that get tacked on and if you start trying to adjust them in the beginning with no knowledge…

0:32:23.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh yeah.

0:32:25.0 Nicholas Chan: You’re just like, you know, just piling up…

0:32:28.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:32:28.8 Nicholas Chan: The stuff that you now have to go back and sort through.

0:32:30.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:32:30.6 Nicholas Chan: So it’s better you just bare minimum, know as little as possible and just shoot, like, shoot as much as you can and then from shooting you’ll be able to know. And like you said, recoverable ammunition, right?

0:32:42.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:32:43.6 Nicholas Chan: It’s not like you go to the range, you’re running out of 50 rounds and that’s it. Like, you get to bring that back and do it as many times as you can.

0:32:49.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I love it. Yeah, I was actually with a thumb release just grouping to the right all day long every single time. Like, okay. And then they switched immediately to trigger release and fixed the entire problem. But it made sense, ’cause I’m a shooter, trigger fingers… Don’t understand what was happening with the thumb, still don’t but yeah, he just like, “Try this.” “Okay.”

[chuckle]

0:33:08.9 Nicholas Chan: It’s the weirdest thing, like, archery is a… What do they call it, they call it black magic?

0:33:15.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Mm-hmm.

0:33:16.0 Nicholas Chan: ‘Cause it’s just one of those things where everything could be perfect and then you go out and do it the next day and your arrows are just flying wherever they want to fly.

0:33:22.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve actually undergrounded two of them, like, where I was trying to sight in yeah, 60 yards or whatever on the pin and it went underground. Like, I found a couple of the other two like, they’re buried. I don’t know how that happened.

[laughter]

0:33:41.2 Nicholas Chan: It’s like, I said, it’s just black magic like…

0:33:41.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup. Yup.

0:33:42.6 Nicholas Chan: And you constantly have to… They’re not like guns, like you know your guns, you adjust your sight and you never touch it again.

[laughter]

0:33:47.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:33:47.9 Nicholas Chan: Like, that’s how I literally red-lock tight all my sights, all my guns. Once they’re zeroed, I don’t plan on ever touching this optic again until like, you know, something goes wrong. Like, when I shoot and it’s just off like an inch or something, I’m like, alright, something’s going on.

[chuckle]

0:34:03.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:34:04.5 Nicholas Chan: Your bow’s the complete opposite. Like, at least once a week you need to take your bow out, shoot it. And if you see any variable, like, any change, adjust, make your adjustment. That’s just…

0:34:13.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. I forgot, what are the weight thingies, the balance things called? Oh, goodness.

0:34:18.2 Nicholas Chan: The stabilizers.

0:34:20.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Thank you. That’s the other stuff you gotta play with.

0:34:22.2 Nicholas Chan: So, stabilizers are… Again, in the beginning they’re crutches or kinda like, light triggers for competition shooters, you know?

0:34:32.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Cutting wheels. Yeah.

[chuckle]

0:34:35.0 Nicholas Chan: You give a competition shooter a stock trigger and they’re flinching low left every single time [laughter] and they never even knew they had a flinch ’cause their gun was breaking before their hands can move.

0:34:44.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup. Yup.

[laughter]

0:34:46.1 Nicholas Chan: That’s what stabilizers are.

0:34:49.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:34:49.8 Nicholas Chan: So it’s like, in the beginning you’re just… First you’re trying to train your… The muscles in your body to be able to do the release, be able to like, do everything without you moving the bow and all that stuff, and get an instructor.

0:34:57.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:35:00.3 Nicholas Chan: By god, like, if I recommend instructors for handguns, for archery it should be a law that you have mandatory like, 12 hours of instruction with an instructor for bow.

0:35:11.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: You would think Nicholas, but we give Americans everyday firearms and like, yeah, yeah, I get it, I’m a second amendment person, but it’s like, so frustrating that people think I’m gonna get this thing that’s gonna blow holes in people or my wall or like, whatever. But I don’t wanna actually learn.

0:35:24.6 Nicholas Chan: I’m naturally good at this.

0:35:27.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right. My grand-poppy showed me, so therefore, I know everything. And so, I don’t need instruction ever in my lifetime. Like, what in the even… What…

0:35:33.5 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, I know.

0:35:35.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:35:37.3 Nicholas Chan: Shooting is an extremely perishable skill and archery shooting is even more so.

[laughter]

0:35:43.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, yeah. You gotta be out there every single day. But I think it’s interesting how much ties over into shooting, like your breathing. Your accuracy can change just on the smallest minute thing that you do wrong. Stance matters. I mean, it’s everything.

0:35:55.4 Nicholas Chan: And if you are going into bow hunting, right? Just like you are going into rifle hunting or pistol… I’m sorry, I got a gnat in my… Bugging the hell out of me. Or you’re doing like, pistol hunting or anything like that, like, you need to… And it’s gonna sound stupid, ’cause I remember the first time I saw somebody doing this, I was like, that guy’s an idiot, right? So we’re shooting trap at some trap range down in Miami, and this dude’s standing with his feet like, it’s tight together like this on his tippy toes and he’s shooting like this with a shotgun.

[chuckle]

0:36:29.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Okay.

0:36:30.4 Nicholas Chan: And I’m just like, what the hell is that dude doing? You know? It looks weird. [laughter] For better terminology, right? [laughter] And I find out the homeboy’s a duck hunter and it turns out that that’s how he has to stand inside his blinds.

0:36:45.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: In the blinds. Yup. Yup.

0:36:45.9 Nicholas Chan: And like, ducks are moving significantly significantly faster than trap is, you know?

0:36:51.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:36:52.3 Nicholas Chan: So he’s here practicing to shoot in a confined space, because that’s what he’s gonna see throughout a season…

0:36:57.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I love it.

0:37:00.2 Nicholas Chan: And like, most duck hunters he’s spending thousands of dollars a year on shells, gear, bow, gas, like all this stuff, why not be great at what you’re doing. It’s the same thing with your bow. Like, you need to be practicing shooting from your knees, shooting from your stance, shooting from awkward positions and off limbs through trees, like, all this stuff like, set yourself up for success by attempting all those shots before you go out there. It’s the same thing with your rifle.

0:37:21.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup. Yup.

0:37:21.7 Nicholas Chan: You know? Like…

0:37:25.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I watch sportsman… Sportswoman Courtney or whatever do that videos, like she’ll be in a chair or she’ll be in her harness or she’ll be standing or whatever and she’s testing different positions for her bow, ’cause she doesn’t know, you know?

0:37:35.7 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. And this weekend actually, they put me in a box blind where my… A bow and a half was the same height as a roof inside that box blind. [chuckle] So I literally couldn’t draw my bow inside the blind.

0:37:48.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh Jesus.

0:37:48.1 Nicholas Chan: So I ended up having to hook my foot out of the back of the ladder, right? And step outside of the back, so I can be able to get low enough so I could shoot out of the front of the blind and I was shooting under the handrail.

0:38:00.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh god.

0:38:01.0 Nicholas Chan: And it’s just one of these things were, luckily, I’ve practiced this before.

[laughter]

0:38:07.0 Nicholas Chan: I have another friend who has a shitty box blind like that, so when I get there I was like, oh damn, I think I know what this is. And I sit inside of it and sure enough I was like, oh, but I practiced the position so I knew what was up. So, I moved my chair back scoot, I already had my leg hanging out of the back of the stand ready, so I can just like you know, drop down and step out and draw.

0:38:26.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:38:28.3 Nicholas Chan: And then I knew where my engagement distance was at, right? That’s another thing about archery hunting, like, you have to have self-control. You can’t just take a shot, ’cause you wanna take a shot.

0:38:35.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:38:36.4 Nicholas Chan: You set your parameters. Like, I am comfortable shooting from here to here and at this distance and if that animal doesn’t walk within that frame and give me a good shot anatomically where I know I’m gonna cause enough damage to kill this thing, then I’m not gonna take the shot.

0:38:50.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:38:51.8 Nicholas Chan: Which is another big one, like, a lot of bow-hunters wanna go off targets, you can’t go off your target. You wanna shoot… When you’re aiming at an animal with a bow, you wanna aim at his opposite side, not the side you’re shooting on.

0:39:01.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:39:01.7 Nicholas Chan: So, you wanna think about where that arrow is gonna exit and that’s what you’re aiming for. Even if it looks like you’re doing a gut shot, right? If he’s like a horrible quartered away shot, right?

0:39:11.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:39:12.4 Nicholas Chan: And he’s looking away from you, you’ll probably be better off depending on what… Your arrow setup, bow setup, it’s what you’re comfortable with dealing with afterwards, you’d probably do like a ham shot, and it’d come all the way through and hit one of the lung… Of one of the lungs and you’re probably gonna have a good time tracking it.

0:39:27.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Yeah.

0:39:29.5 Nicholas Chan: And that’s if you’re a 100% desperate, not the ideal situation, but these are things you wanna think about, right?

0:39:33.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh yeah. And then like, full metal jackets, hollow points, so you definitely don’t wanna shoot [chuckle] your target arrows.

0:39:42.2 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:39:43.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s the other thing. And then a lot of people go out there without even testing their hunting…

0:39:49.1 Nicholas Chan: Oh my goodness. If you’re shooting on TAC with arrows, which is like competition, whatever, then set up your bow for TAC. If you wanna have a bow for hunting, then you have to make sure you zero your bow with whatever broadheads you’re using. And I strictly shoot broadheads. Like, I literally buy six broadheads and I have three on my hunting arrows and three on my non-hunting arrows and I shoot strictly broadheads.

0:40:13.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, yeah. It’s like, regular magazines and dry fire magazines, it’s, yeah, same thing.

0:40:21.0 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. It’s… Again, I’m not a good hunter, so I wanna eliminate all the variables that I can’t control, right? Like, this is what I can control. I can’t control the animal’s gonna show up, I can’t control the wind, can’t control the weather. I can control if I can hit something with my bow.

0:40:34.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, absolutely. So how are you preparing for hunting season too outside of like, the practicing with the bow? I mean, are you scouting, are you putting anything down in the fields or what does that look like for you?

0:40:45.8 Nicholas Chan: So again, it’s regional and honestly, I suggest going with like, finding an old-timer to do it, but from what I’ve learned, right? Like… [laughter] I’m serious like, in this day and age we have lost the ability to have a conversation with people, because we’re so used to the Internet and the disconnect that we don’t talk to people anymore. You don’t understand how valuable it is for you to walk up to a random person at a Bass Pro Shop or a sporting goods store that looks like he fits the stereotype of a hunter and asking him, “Excuse me, sir, do you kill deer every year?” [laughter] And trust me, a hunter that kills deer every year is not gonna be like, “No, that’s not me.” They’re gonna be a, “Hell yeah, I put a lot of bucks on the ground.” You’re gonna be like, “Cool, you’re the person I wanna learn from.”

0:41:26.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:41:26.6 Nicholas Chan: And believe it or not, hunters are super proud of their legacy and they will be more than happy to show you how to kill stuff.

0:41:34.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. I think on Facebook Tennessee Wildlife or Tennessee Hunters or whatever, there’s a lot on there that like, hey, we’ll take you turkey hunting or whatever, it looks like, I’m like, okay.

0:41:42.6 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. ‘Cause that’s what gets their rocks off, man. Like, that’s what does it for them now, you know? Like, they feel that [0:41:46.4] ____.

0:41:46.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Same with us. I wanna go shooting. I’m like, “Let’s go, let’s go, like, right now, I’m in. [laughter] You don’t have to sell me on it.”

0:41:52.5 Nicholas Chan: Especially with a new shooter ’cause you get to live that first moment, again, like, the first gun shot and all that stuff, it’s like, that feels awesome, right?

0:42:00.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yes.

0:42:00.9 Nicholas Chan: And it’s like, it’s your little heroin fix, that’s what that is. It’s like…

0:42:05.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Totally.

0:42:05.5 Nicholas Chan: It’s never as good as the first time.

0:42:07.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: No.

0:42:07.7 Nicholas Chan: But you can relive it through someone else, but…

0:42:11.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: So find an old-timer, okay?

0:42:13.6 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. No. But if you do wanna do it on your own, which is the hardest way possible, it’s what I’m doing, because it sucks, right? But if you do wanna do it on your own something that I have found works is in the summer months if you want to hunt early season, right? If you wanna hunt gun season, you wanna make sure you do this in the winter. Deer walk two different formats, right? They walk their winter months, and they walk their fall/winter and then spring/summer. Their spring/summer habits are completely different from their fall/winter habits.

0:42:45.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:42:46.1 Nicholas Chan: If you spend your entire summer tracking a deer for gun season, which starts in the fall, you will go to those spots where you’re tracking that deer and never find a deer there, because they’re not there anymore. It happened to me last year. I had the same bucks walking on camera every single day. Come that time I was like… They’re gonna be there at nine o’clock where I’m gonna smoke these boys, and they’re on the other side of the property, [chuckle] never saw them. Never saw them again. So, if you wanna do…

0:43:14.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Whose property is this? It’s a public land or…

0:43:15.8 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:43:16.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

0:43:17.5 Nicholas Chan: Hunting public land. So, if you hunt public land early season, right? You’re planning on bow hunting early season, then I suggest going out in the summer, driving around the WMA like, nearly staying on their main road and looking for where the deer are crossing at. Like, literally just look at the ground and you will see tracks on the ground.

0:43:38.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:43:38.8 Nicholas Chan: You’re gonna get out of your car, you’re gonna kick those tracks clean and you’re gonna mark them on whatever hunting map app you’re using. I use OnyX.

0:43:46.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: OnyX, yeah.

0:43:47.6 Nicholas Chan: You mark them on your map. You drive around and you do this for every single piece of track that you find, right? You wait two, three weeks, four weeks, whatever. You come back out there and you go back to the exact same spots that you marked on your map originally. If you see tracks there again, then you know that that’s a highway area. You know that’s where they are walking for a fact, right? So then wherever you don’t have tracks anymore, you take them off, you confirm that they’re no longer over there. Wherever you do find tracks, you find them where they’re at. Cool.

0:44:19.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I love it.

0:44:20.1 Nicholas Chan: You wait a month before hunting season, right? A month before hunting season, you come back out there, you confirm those spots one last time. You don’t have to be out there every day. Confirm those spots one last time and now you walk into the woods, right? You’ll see a deer trail, it’s not supposed to be comfortable. These are wild animals. They don’t walk on trails. You know, there’s not a fucking pathway cut out with perfect limestones on the floor. It is shitty. There are briars everywhere. This is government land. This is the DMV of the woods. Like, this is not supposed to be a magical experience. [laughter] Right? People have this idea like, you watch YouTube and all this shit and you have these guys with like, perfect shooting lanes and like a bicycle they can rent to make it to their stands and like, no mosquitoes. It’s like, the ideal situation.

0:45:08.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: No.

0:45:08.6 Nicholas Chan: That’s not how real life works, okay? A real WMA sucks. [laughter] So…

0:45:16.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Are you field dressing out there and packing it out or what are you doing?

0:45:18.1 Nicholas Chan: No, I take them out. I take them out completely. I bring it home, because I feed my dogs organs.

0:45:23.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, that’s awesome, that’s very cool.

0:45:25.3 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. Yeah, raw diet’s great for them. So, you go into the woods on either side and then early season you’re not gonna have rubbed lines, you’re not gonna have scrapes, you’re not gonna have any of those things, so all you’re looking for is high traffic areas. Like, you’ll see where the grass is beat down, laid down. If you find acorns in September, usually if there’s acorns in one area, they won’t be in another area, so wherever you find them that’s where they’re gonna be at.

0:45:48.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:45:49.2 Nicholas Chan: And if there’s a dozen acorn trees, there’s only gonna be one that they’re gonna be hitting. So they could all be dropping acorns, but there will be one tree that has a ton of traffic under it and until that tree doesn’t run out, that’s where they’re gonna be at.

0:46:01.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Interesting.

0:46:01.5 Nicholas Chan: And then, remembering deer move to bedding in the morning and they move to feed at night. So make sure that if you do find where they’re feeding, then you’re hunting that at night and if you do find where they’re bedding, then you’re hunting there in the morning.

0:46:14.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. What about a water source?

0:46:17.8 Nicholas Chan: Water sources… Oh, I mean, yeah. Always find the… If you follow the tracks you’re gonna find a water source.

0:46:26.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:46:26.9 Nicholas Chan: But depending on where you’re at, like in South Georgia we have the benefit of having like a ton of ponds and swamps, so you can typically find two ponds that are like 200 yards apart or so.

0:46:37.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:46:38.2 Nicholas Chan: And if you set up right in the middle of them, you’re forcing these deer into a funnel.

0:46:40.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right, right. Now, you’re doing the harness stuff too, aren’t you?

0:46:45.2 Nicholas Chan: Yes, I’m doing saddle hunting this year.

0:46:48.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Okay.

0:46:48.8 Nicholas Chan: It’s… I think it’s safer like, significantly safer. It’s not any more or any less comfortable. Like, I don’t care what they tell you, like, all these dudes are like, “This is the most comfortable form of hunting I’ve ever done.” No, it’s not. [laughter] It is not. Obviously they’ve never been in a box blind you know, with an office chair, ’cause that’s incredible.

0:47:05.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: One foot out the door, yeah, oh my god. Okay.

[laughter]

0:47:09.5 Nicholas Chan: No bomb.com, okay? No, these dudes are like, “Saddle hunting’s the best.” Like, I mean, it’s okay.

0:47:14.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: It’s okay.

0:47:16.1 Nicholas Chan: What it does, what it does do for you is that it offers you a broader selection of trees you can get into.

0:47:22.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:47:23.1 Nicholas Chan: Right? Like, if you’re doing a climber, you’re limited to the trees that you have and then if you’re bow hunting, it’s slightly terrifying, because you always have to make sure your bottom section of your climber’s angled at the right angle, so as you’re climbing up the tree and the tree’s getting smaller, it levels out flat. Or you can end up with a climber, like, completely tilted this way or still up on an angle and now you’re shooting off an angled platform.

0:47:44.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Super [0:47:45.6] ____.

0:47:46.7 Nicholas Chan: It’s sketchy. I hate it. I absolutely… I’m terrified of heights. Like, I am beyond terrified of heights, but I know that I need to get up a tree to do man shit, so I’m gonna get up a tree and do man shit.

[laughter]

0:48:00.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh my god, we’re gonna make you a plaque, “Do man shit.” [laughter] That’s your quote. That’s great.

0:48:08.1 Nicholas Chan: I live by this man. Like I… Whenever I’m afraid to do something, like, especially when you come from the city and like, you didn’t grow up in the woods, you didn’t grow up in any of this stuff, it’s intimidating at first. You know, walking the woods in the middle of night and hearing these things making all these sorts of crazy noises, terrifying.

0:48:20.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Dude, there is a bobcat that lives on this property that I hunt at every year. And I sorta got me and my friend are like walking in the dark, five o’clock in the morning trying to get a stand and I’ve got my side arm and I have the hunting rifle. She’s completely unarmed, that’s helpful. And then I’m just like, every noise stopping like, “What if the bobcat is out there? And you’re not armed.” [laughter] I’m thinking like, “What are we gonna do?” [laughter] I hate it. I hate it. I want night vision so bad.

0:48:47.8 Nicholas Chan: You’ll get used to it.

0:48:48.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I want night vision. I want night vision.

0:48:49.1 Nicholas Chan: Just get used to it. I’m telling you.

0:48:50.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: It’s gonna happen. I need it anyways, come on. We all need it.

0:48:54.7 Nicholas Chan: Yes. [laughter] Actually, so it’s funny, bobcats whistle.

0:49:00.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Okay.

0:49:00.9 Nicholas Chan: Like they let off like a whistle in the middle of night. It’s like, the creepiest sounding whistle and like, a slight baby crying sound.

0:49:08.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Nope.

0:49:08.7 Nicholas Chan: I’m packing out the other day and I’m like, it’s probably like, 8:30 at night, it’s completely pitch black. I’m in this oak bottom, I’m putting all my stuff up and I just hear this whistling. And like, immediately like, I just started thinking the worst. I’m like, I have a gun, so…

[laughter]

0:49:21.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

[overlapping conversation]

0:49:27.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: But it’s gonna attack. It’s gonna be something. [0:49:28.6] ____.

0:49:28.8 Nicholas Chan: But I have a gun. Like…

0:49:29.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I know.

0:49:30.6 Nicholas Chan: Based off of my, how you call it, resourceful and skillful deciphering of scary movies. [laughter] None of them had a gun.

0:49:44.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: No.

0:49:44.9 Nicholas Chan: It’s that simple. So, it’s intimidating at first, but it’s one of those things where like, you just have to go do it. Like, I think about… Like, you think about Lewis and Clark.

0:49:52.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:49:53.0 Nicholas Chan: These dudes didn’t have a GPS, these dudes didn’t have a freaking Internet. Like, they didn’t have anything. Can you imagine a guy that first discovered a grizzly bear?

0:50:01.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Uh-uh, pass.

0:50:03.0 Nicholas Chan: Like, this dude just showed up and he’s like, I wonder what that thing is over there. Seems pretty peaceful. He’s walking around minding his business. He finds a grizzly bear [laughter] and we’re over here like, what was that sound at night?

0:50:15.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:50:16.4 Nicholas Chan: What do you have black bears in Tennessee like, [0:50:17.7] ____.

0:50:17.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Dude, I…

0:50:18.8 Nicholas Chan: [0:50:19.7] ____ raccoons.

0:50:19.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: No joke. Two weekends, three weekends ago, no. Like, I’m… I was so excited to come down from the stupid mountain hike, loved it, not stupid, but stupid. So seven miles whatever down and I see the parking sign. So in the woods it says parking arrow and I’m like yeah, so I start running. I didn’t see there’s a bear. There’s a bear cub, like, right in front of me. And then, my friend that was with me like, “Bear, bear.” I’m like, “Oh, okay.” And freeze and I’m backing up and we’re looking for mom, right? We see dum-dums from the parking lot coming up taking videos, getting close to the bear cub, and I’m like, where’s mom? [laughter] That’s all I cared about at that point. Yeah, dude. But even a little cub will take me out. Shoot.

0:50:57.1 Nicholas Chan: You have a gun. You have a gun.

[laughter]

0:51:00.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Still. Yeah. She had a gun, I had a gun, doesn’t matter. Oh come, attack.

[laughter]

0:51:03.4 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. I’m more of like, if I have a gun, I’m good. I worry when I don’t have a gun. I don’t have a gun now, I’m like, you know, things are getting sketchy.

0:51:12.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I think about that all the time, I guess. I just don’t… I don’t know, I’ve never had to shoot an animal that’s attacked me, right? So until I know what that feels like…

[laughter]

0:51:20.2 Nicholas Chan: Pretty sure it feels like [0:51:20.3] ____ [laughter]

0:51:21.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: How do you know? How do you know how you’re gonna respond though? Right?

0:51:25.4 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, I guess.

0:51:26.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: You can train all you want, but I just I guess, I don’t know how I’m gonna respond.

0:51:28.0 Nicholas Chan: You’re probably gonna shoot him.

[chuckle]

0:51:30.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: With a little Glock 43.

[laughter]

0:51:33.8 Nicholas Chan: Oh yeah, no. That’s where I draw… I carry a full-size gun everywhere.

0:51:36.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Okay, but you wouldn’t wanna do it seven miles up the mountain, seven miles down a mountain, 4000 feet elevation…

0:51:42.7 Nicholas Chan: Listen to me.

0:51:42.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I know, but no. With RDX heavy pack? Hell, no.

0:51:46.7 Nicholas Chan: No, I do not put a price on my comfort.

0:51:49.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I know.

0:51:49.8 Nicholas Chan: Right?

0:51:50.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I do.

0:51:50.6 Nicholas Chan: Ever, ever, ever like. There’s… I don’t have a price on my comfort. My comfort is me carrying a minimum of 17 rounds and a backup magazine. And I will always have that on me.

0:52:00.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: What do you carry?

0:52:01.9 Nicholas Chan: I carry a Taurus G3 with a 17 round mag and a 20 round backup mag with a Henning base plate on it.

0:52:09.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: There you go. Okay.

0:52:10.4 Nicholas Chan: I don’t care if you catch me in the beach, I don’t care if you see me in a pool party, I don’t care if you see me at a barbecue and a mountain, like, wherever I am at, I have a G3 Taurus with at least 20 rounds of ammo on me.

0:52:21.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, I mean, this one hiking it’s like, 30 something pound pack. So, yeah. I get it.

0:52:28.6 Nicholas Chan: I’ll put up with it just ’cause I feel comfortable with like… I’m telling you, there’s nothing that fazes me nothing, nothing at all. There’s a bear? I got 20 rounds.

[laughter]

0:52:36.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Okay…

0:52:38.2 Nicholas Chan: I hate to sit there and be like, I have seven rounds, I should really think about this right now.

[laughter]

0:52:45.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I wanna dive into concealed carry stuff, but did you wanna close out anything with hunting before we do.

0:52:50.4 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. You just… If you’re a new hunter, you just gotta do it. Like, old hunters, they know what’s up. I don’t have to sell them on anything, they know what to do.

0:52:57.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:52:58.6 Nicholas Chan: But if you want to get into hunting, go with an outfitters which is the first thing to do and you have to just do it. If you ask people to take you hunting, nobody’s gonna take you.

0:53:09.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:53:10.4 Nicholas Chan: I can almost guarantee you that that the likelihood of somebody taking you is very slim, because this is something that is a lifestyle, it’s not like a hobby that people do on the weekends. Like, people live and breathe this shit, like throughout the whole year they’re spending hundreds of thousands of… Like hundreds of thousands of dollars literally on equipment and you know, good land management practices, like, everything, everything, everything, everything. Like, it’s… And even these people that talk about like, people that cheat and bait animals. You can bait animals and still have everything go wrong.

0:53:42.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yep.

0:53:43.5 Nicholas Chan: Okay? Like, we have put feeders up for turkey season, right? Like, we’re just… We had just put feeders up for the deer and turkey season was coming up and we’re like, man, we’ll just leave the feeders out a little longer, maybe bring some more turkeys in before turkey season starts, then we’ll take them down, right? We end up drawing dozens of raccoons to the property which are turkeys’ number one predator and we don’t see a single turkey for the rest of the season. And how were we supposed to know that until we had that happen to us. So think about how many hunters have gone through this, paid the price for it, right? And now you’re coming up to him all willy-nilly like, “Oh I want you to take me hunting ’cause I’ve never gone before.”

0:54:22.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:54:23.4 Nicholas Chan: Who the hell are you? You know like, well, there’s works, you go put in the work, go to WMA, trek your ass off, put in the work, have a bunch of shitty hunting days where you couldn’t catch anything, you know, and learn, ’cause that’s the only way you’re gonna learn. Like, the first time you see a deer run away from you because you forgot to wear rubber boots that day, like, he walks in and smells your trail as you walk in and runs away from you, you’re gonna kick yourself in the ass, and you’re never gonna do it again.

0:54:49.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, you learn the hard way. Yeah.

0:54:50.9 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, that’s the way. And then, other hunters will see your effort and then they’ll be like, “Hey, dude you should come with me.”

0:54:56.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Yeah.

0:54:57.7 Nicholas Chan: Like, now I’m invited to every… Almost every freaking hunting club in South Georgia it seems like. [laughter] But it’s been two years of me getting my ass kicked, you know?

0:55:07.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I love it. I love it. I can’t wait for you to get your first harvest with the bow for sure. I’m excited for you.

0:55:10.5 Nicholas Chan: I’ve got a doe, I’m trying to kill a buck with my bow, so.

0:55:12.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Okay. Okay.

0:55:14.4 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:55:14.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s awesome. Congrats. Yeah, so we’re diving into like, concealed carry stuff and I’ve talked about this with numerous podcast guests, but man, there’s no safe places, right? Like, we’re talking about bears and wildlife, but seriously like, it doesn’t matter where you are, it doesn’t matter where you’re going, I think everybody needs to really learn how to carry, especially in… Like in groups, it doesn’t matter, everyone should have one. I don’t know why I’m so often considered the person that’s like the protector or like, “Oh she’s got one, so I don’t need mine.” It’s like, “What? Uh-uh,” you know?

0:55:46.4 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. Well, you know, stay strapped… Or stay strapped to get clapped, George Washington probably.

[laughter]

0:55:55.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: George Washington.

0:55:56.6 Nicholas Chan: But it’s… You don’t carry… So first I always tell people like… When I worked behind the gun store, it all depends like, what your comfort is, right? Like, do you wanna… Like, my comfort is like, where do… When do I feel safe?

0:56:13.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:56:13.7 Nicholas Chan: I feel safe with a gun that I know I could you know, use very well. That I’m highly proficient with. And I like a lot of bullets, ’cause I never wanna to be in a position where like, I don’t have enough bullets. I know that sounds crazy, but it’s like, in a moment of high stress it’s nothing for you to dump, six, seven rounds. Like, I know you’ve seen those you know, those illegal splits where it’s like, one, five, one, five, one, five, one, five and that happens and you know, you just shoot off an entire G… You know Glock 43 mag under a second and you’ve only dealt with one threat.

0:56:43.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup. Yup.

0:56:46.4 Nicholas Chan: Like, no, I like to have…

0:56:46.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s my little hiking gun, but yeah, yeah. I got Walther now that’s full sized, so it’s just interesting to try to learn that platform too though. Yeah.

0:56:55.3 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. And it’s one of those things where like, what’s your comfort? And then my counter argument to that is like, “What’s comfortable to shoot isn’t comfortable to carry, and what’s comfortable to carry isn’t comfortable to shoot.”

0:57:08.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:57:09.3 Nicholas Chan: So, you have to figure, are you getting into shootouts every day or do you wanna carry a gun every day? So that’s the other question you gotta ask yourself, right? So, I usually recommend people to buy the gun that they’re most comfortable… Most comfortably carrying.

0:57:22.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

0:57:24.2 Nicholas Chan: Because then you’re gonna be more willing to carry it than a gun that has a bunch of bullets and you never wanna carry, because it’s too heavy for you to have on you or it’s uncomfortable for you to have on you. That’s something I deal with, because my comfort level has nothing to do with how I feel physically, it has to do with…

0:57:38.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: How many bullets?

0:57:41.1 Nicholas Chan: Psychologically I was like, I wanna know I have bullets, that’s where my comforts at.

0:57:45.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: You crack me up. No, I mean that makes sense and I just wrote a blog actually with the UM Tactical over reviewing one of their holsters, of like, “Yeah, if it’s not comfortable you’re not gonna wear it,” so you do have to find comfort in that.

0:57:52.4 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

0:57:54.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s a cool partnership that you guys have at Taurus by the way with them, making holsters for their… All of the things, even wheel guns.

0:58:01.8 Nicholas Chan: Everything. And Brian’s a super genius.

0:58:04.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: He is.

0:58:06.3 Nicholas Chan: Like, it trips me out. Like, I have conversation with this dude, and I just see his gears turning, I’m like, “Oh my god this dude is like… ” Like, he’s constantly just like, deciphering objects in his head and how he can make them better. He’ll literally come up with like, “Chan, you know, I was thinking about them… ” “Like, that is the weirdest shit, but I’m so glad I know you.” But I love it.

[laughter]

0:58:27.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: For people that don’t know Brian, I mean like, he’s the inventor of the rage muzzle brake and he’s got all these great engineering ideas and patents and machine, but like, you said, he can just think of it and see it in his brain and then go do it.

0:58:38.0 Nicholas Chan: Brian’s got dozens of patents under his belt, like, the dude’s legitimately a genius. And he just… He sees the world different than everybody else. Like it’s just…

0:58:47.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Coolest dude, though.

0:58:49.1 Nicholas Chan: And he’s a shooter, which is a huge part like, he’s also a shooter, competition shooter to be exact, and he understands what the market demands. So a lot of times, I’ll call Brian and Brian will be like, “Man, look Chan, I don’t know what you think about this,” I’m like, “I don’t care what I think, what do you think bro? Like, tell me, do you think this is sufficient or do you think it’s not?” And he’s his worst critic, so I love to put him in that position, ’cause then I know it’s gonna come out perfect.

[laughter]

0:59:10.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: You know you’re not [0:59:11.1] ____.

[laughter]

0:59:12.7 Nicholas Chan: So I’m just like…

0:59:13.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s like, psychotherapy.

0:59:15.1 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, I’m just like, “Hey, Brian, you tell me what you think about it?” He’s like, “Man, I don’t know,” and he just starts going down this rabbit hole. I like, “Alright you get back to me when you get that squared away,” and just like, walk away.

[laughter]

0:59:23.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: It’s so funny, he thanked me, ’cause I took Janet and Ava, his daughter to do some night visioning, because they had never done it before and they’re like, “Oh, I don’t really wanna go.” Like, no, no, no, we put them on and like, they come back and they’re like telling Brian, Brian we need night vision and he’s like, in the background give me the thumbs up, like, thanks, Kenzie. Isn’t it cool? $10,000 grand.

[laughter]

0:59:41.5 Nicholas Chan: I already see him with scooters of night vision riding around with night vision.

[laughter]

0:59:47.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: A lot of actually spouses like, husbands themselves thank me, they’re like, “Thanks Kenzie for selling my wife on a [0:59:54.0] ____ hundred dollar 2011,” or whatever it is. Like, “You’re welcome. [laughter] You’re welcome.”

1:00:00.0 Nicholas Chan: But back to the concealed carry stuff like, yeah, I tell everybody. Like, find what’s comfortable to carry. Your wardrobe is supposed to change. You can’t get away with the same things. Like, you’re not… You now give…

1:00:11.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Leggings.

1:00:11.2 Nicholas Chan: I mean, they sell leggings that you can get away with that, but you have to have a good belt.

1:00:16.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

1:00:17.2 Nicholas Chan: Right? Like, even if I’m wearing basketball shorts, I’ll have a gun belt over my basketball shorts and just have my holster clip to my gun belt.

1:00:26.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: There you go.

1:00:26.4 Nicholas Chan: But yeah, like, you’re giving yourself… It always trips me out to hear people say like, “Oh well, we have the police.” It’s like, so you expect for somebody that gets paid $35,000 a year or whatever to come and put their life on the line for you?

1:00:43.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

1:00:43.3 Nicholas Chan: Like, you expect somebody else to take the personal responsibility of sacrificing their life for you instead of you doing it yourself? Like nobody…

1:00:49.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Exactly. It’s [1:00:51.4] ____.

1:00:53.2 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, that lack of personal responsibility and then with that personal responsibility that you’re now bringing back to yourself by carrying a gun comes other responsibilities like, you have to have wardrobe that fits carrying this gun. You know, things have to change. And it’s… Some people… You know, most people aren’t okay with change, but this is what it takes like. If you’ve made the jump and the decision you wanna start carrying a means to protect yourself, then you have to change everything else too.

1:01:18.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. I know like, belly bands aren’t great, but there are some really good ones to wear. I mean, like CrossBreed they wrap around itself and then they’ve even created velcro holsters like, still Krydex whatever, but velcro onto the belly band that’s really tight. I test everything, the PHLSTER Enigma system, I’ve got one of those.

1:01:36.6 Nicholas Chan: The Enigma is great. And the belly band’s great too. The sticky holsters are great. Again, it’s just finding a means. Like, a lot of people want to get away with buying accessories to justify their wardrobe. And it’s like, why don’t you just adjust your wardrobe? Like, you’re spending hundreds of dollars on holster when you can just not buy that t-shirt.

1:01:55.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Yeah. Priorities.

1:02:00.6 Nicholas Chan: What are you doing? Like, it’s not that serious. You can just buy a different t-shirt. You can wear… Like, there’s plenty of things that you can wear that you don’t have to buy all these things that… Again, you buy a holster, you still have to train with it now.

1:02:08.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

1:02:10.3 Nicholas Chan: Like, you have to put in reps. Like, every time you change the setup, you have to now train on how to be proficient with that setup, instead of just buying a different shirt or a set of pants like… [laughter] Like, that’s what I don’t get.

1:02:22.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I know, it’s weird. But yeah, anything else on that realm? I wanted to jump into some of the events that we do every year.

1:02:31.5 Nicholas Chan: No, I’ll carry gun.

1:02:32.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Perfect.

1:02:33.4 Nicholas Chan: That’s the most important thing to carry a gun.

1:02:34.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: My advice. [laughter] Okay, so I know you and I both kinda travel circuit, you probably do a lot more than I do, but I know shot shows industry specific, but we have the NRA annual meeting, that’s open NRA members. The gathering at Clinton house is really cool, they’re coming back next year and that’s for anybody, open to the public to shoot from sig and Glock and Taurus comes out and like, you can shoot not even your own ammo, other people’s ammo and try different firearms, which was really cool, ’cause… I mean, taking Ava around, she’s 15 she’s trying to learn revolver. We found out she’s got the other…

1:03:06.4 Nicholas Chan: Cross-eye dominant.

1:03:07.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup, cross-eye dominant. That was fun to find out. She didn’t even know, right? So like, these events are really important, I think that they’re really helpful for new shooters. Are there any other events too that you go to that I don’t know about?

1:03:21.5 Nicholas Chan: In Montana… Not Montana, Minnesota they have the Reeds Gun Fair Event…

1:03:25.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Okay.

1:03:26.0 Nicholas Chan: Which is huge, like, huge. It is one of the biggest… ‘Cause it’s an actual gun show where you can buy guns. So you can buy guns there, and at the same time go outside and the manufacturers are actually outside demoing the guns, so you can shoot guns there too.

1:03:42.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: There’s the outdoor expo then, at Green Top?

1:03:46.5 Nicholas Chan: The outdoor expo at Green Top, you also have a… What’s another live fire event? Now I’m drawing blanks on that. Yeah, no, it’s the only one I got.

1:03:56.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: But there’s a bunch in…

1:04:00.6 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, there’s a couple of them.

1:04:00.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: How are those events that are not close the industry like, how are those helpful and what do you see by the way on your side of things? ‘Cause I know you’re the guy handing live firearms to people that don’t really know what they’re doing, so how does that go?

1:04:12.3 Nicholas Chan: So, it’s cool. Like, it’s a lot easier than most people think, because everybody’s initially intimidated. So, like, everybody’s already walking up afraid and concerned of doing something wrong. So it’s easier to guide people through the process and be like, “Hey, look, this is what I want you to do” and whatever. So, it’s real clear. But what I do like about those events is that, one, you have a bunch of like-minded people in a single location. So like, the first thing you’ll find is everybody’s extremely polite, everybody’s extremely courteous like, everybody’s got a friendly disposition to help you out. Like, it’s like…

1:04:46.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

1:04:47.2 Nicholas Chan: It’s one of those things that attracts me to the gun industry so much, because I’ve never worked somewhere where people are just so open to like, just wanting to be friendly and start a conversation.

1:04:56.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

1:04:57.9 Nicholas Chan: Like, you hear the phrase, an armed society is a polite society, but then you see it in real life and you’re like, this is amazing, this should be everywhere.

1:05:06.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

1:05:06.3 Nicholas Chan: Like, there’s no one… Like, nowhere is friendlier than like at a gun show or at these live fire events. So you have that.

1:05:13.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: It’s weird. It’s weird. ‘Cause I tell people like, the best thing that ever happened to me and the best people I’ve ever met is because of firearms, which people will say and use the word weapon, which I don’t ever use that, but it’s something that is crazy. Like, these are people that are offering their house to me to stay and people that I haven’t even met in person, it’s over social media will connect with me and like… Just, it’s cool, it’s awesome.

1:05:30.5 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, it’s… I love it. There’s nothing else like it. It’s kinda like what got me away from law enforcement and like, why I got into the gun stuff so much, ’cause it’s like, it’s so easy to just wanna like, stay in this forever. Like, I can’t see myself… It’s what prevents me from committing any crimes, okay? [laughter] I think about possibly catching a felony and no longer being able to work in the gun industry and it terrifies me, so I follow the speed limit, you know? I don’t poach animals, like I do everything I’m supposed to do, because I never wanna leave this industry.

[laughter]

1:06:04.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

1:06:06.7 Nicholas Chan: Like, it’s incredible. And for a first-time shooter, like my sister. My sister came out there with her wife to that gathering event and she’d never… Like, my sister’s always been super anti-gun, all this stuff.

1:06:17.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh, wow.

1:06:18.8 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, super anti-gun. And her wife’s actually in the Navy and her wife wanted guns in the house, but my sister’s got a very strong personality, so it’s not happening. [laughter] And so, I gave her an AR-15, I gave her wife an AR-15. I told her like, all you’re responsible for are the bullets. Like, you gotta buy bullets, right?

1:06:37.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Wow.

1:06:37.8 Nicholas Chan: And I told her… Like, I taught her how to shoot, we did all that good stuff. I’m like, look, it’s simple. If you guys are ever in a sticky situation, I want you guys to go to your room, point this at the door and call 911, and whatever comes through that door, is not supposed to come through that door you pump rounds, you know?

1:06:52.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

1:06:52.5 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, special operations dudes, they train this hundreds of hours and get shot. You’re not SEAL team 6, don’t go doing CQB in your house. Find a room, use your local resources, call the cops, have them come in, but you point at that door, right? You’re not leaving any variables open.

1:07:06.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

1:07:08.4 Nicholas Chan: One night we’re on… We’re facetiming each other and her alarm goes off, their front door’s been kicked in, right? She’s freaking out, I hear her wife freaking out. I’m like, oh my goodness. This is happening. I was like, cool, go grab the AR-15 point it at the door, [laughter] call the cops. Whatever, they’re still panicking she ends up hanging up, a couple of minutes go by, whatever. She calls me back, turns out the wind had just knocked the door open.

1:07:37.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: What?

1:07:37.9 Nicholas Chan: Whatever.

1:07:38.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh wow.

1:07:39.4 Nicholas Chan: So then I was like, I don’t understand why you were so worried, you had a gun, right?

1:07:42.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Sure.

1:07:43.3 Nicholas Chan: Like, it makes me feel better. I don’t understand why it’s not making you feel better? [laughter] Turns out she never went to go buy bullets for that gun, because she felt that it was unsafe to have bullets for that gun.

1:07:54.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: In the… Wow. Wow.

1:07:56.1 Nicholas Chan: So I told her, I was like, so what are you gonna do now?

1:08:00.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: You have a stick, she had a stick.

1:08:01.3 Nicholas Chan: She had a stick. So I was like, “So what are you gonna do now?” She’s like, “Oh no I’m sending my wife to go buy the bullets tomorrow.”

1:08:05.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh, there you go.

1:08:06.0 Nicholas Chan: I was like, cool. I was like, “So what did we learn?” [laughter] And she’s like, “that I want a gun.” I was like, right? It’s a great option to have, like, case of emergency, break glass, I have a gun.

1:08:16.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup. Wow.

1:08:18.6 Nicholas Chan: So, she came out to that gathering event after that occurrence and she’s like, meeting all these people and like, I even told her like to stay away from me. Like, stay away from Taurus booth. I don’t want you to use me as an excuse or a social crutch for you to go talk to people. I want you to go meet these people for who they are. They don’t know that I’m in the industry like, nothing. I just want you to go meet randos. Right? So, she goes out there with her wife. She’s stopping at all these booths, every different company that she stopped that’s helping her out, talking her through the process, teaching her how to shoot guns, like, showing her all this stuff. And she calls me that night, and she’s like, “I now see why you work in that industry and you never wanna leave. Like, I’ve never met a friendlier group of people in my life.” I was like, “I know. They’re the best.” Like, a bunch of degenerates…

1:09:02.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: They are.

1:09:04.3 Nicholas Chan: But they’re the best.

[laughter]

1:09:04.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: We are. Yeah. Sure. That’s accurate. No, that’s awesome, that’s life-changing. That’s life-changing.

1:09:10.5 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

1:09:11.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Anti-gun or not, I mean, that’s… In like one day, I mean, you could go for three days there, but you’re learning every single platform. You can go shoot a long-range rifle, you can go shoot the handgun that is like, you know, 380 maybe and recoils like a ton. You can go shoot shotgun, where was it at? Arms Court, I shot the shotgun with a pistol grip. I could have killed John for making me do that, but A, I announced that I can do it. I know that I can do it. [chuckle] It was okay.

1:09:38.1 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

1:09:38.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Not funny. [laughter] But like, even the full auto experience, I mean, that stuff, that’s like once in a lifetime in the mile challenge and stuff, but I really like that event. I really wish there was more like that across the country.

1:09:47.3 Nicholas Chan: 100%. I think as the industry progresses we’re definitely gonna see it more, but it’s just one of those things and then when you see that everybody’s intent like… ‘Cause everybody wants to paint gun owners as like these evil violent people that just like wanna go around threatening people and all this stuff, it’s like, it’s the complete opposite. Like, these people live extremely peaceful lives and just wanna be left alone and like spend time with their family and friends and have a good time. And they know that the only way that they can 100% guarantee and preserve that, is being armed.

1:10:20.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Yup.

1:10:23.2 Nicholas Chan: Like, it’s the only way you can confirm… And like, their intent isn’t to do evil, their intent is that they do it because they love the people around them so much, they’re willing to do whatever it takes to preserve that.

1:10:31.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Absolutely. That’s well said. That’s well said. I’ll leave that little thing wrapped up in that bow right there. [laughter] Last little session here, I know we talked about this offline, but… So there are people that are coming in the industry, the people that are asking for help that are signing up for classes and this is like the biggest recommendation I tell other people as well, is vetting the instructors that they’re learning from, you know, what is their background and why are they doing it? Is it defense, is it competitive, is it just learning firearm manipulations, like, all of that? So, what do you recommend people ask instructors, look for in instructors and all of that?

1:11:07.4 Nicholas Chan: So the first, the first, first, first thing, that’s the most important thing, is your concealed carry course is not a firearms course. I don’t care who’s done it, how many rounds you put down the range, where you went to, how much you paid for it. You paid more than $50 bucks you’re getting ripped off. Your concealed carry course is not a firearms… Is not an firearms instruction course by any means.

1:11:33.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yes.

1:11:33.9 Nicholas Chan: It is literally an instructor who has been… Is part of the monopoly and tells you, don’t walk into government buildings with a gun. Have a nice day for an hour and 30 minutes.

1:11:44.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: And some states require that though.

1:11:47.5 Nicholas Chan: Yes, that’s what I’m saying.

1:11:47.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Like the one that I live in. Yeah.

1:11:49.6 Nicholas Chan: Florida requires it, Georgia doesn’t, but even in Florida, like, that’s what I’m saying it’s the dumbest course you can ever take and it’s just that. Don’t walk into a government building with a gun, have a nice day. That is it. That is not a firearms instructors course.

1:12:02.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Correct.

1:12:04.0 Nicholas Chan: Now, if you do go take a course take you know, basic pistol or a beginner’s pistol, whatever it is, you wanna make sure you’re like… Like, you were just saying you want to rep… Make sure you have a reputable instructor. Check their background, right?

1:12:15.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

1:12:17.8 Nicholas Chan: Like, you wanna make sure that you’re learning… If you wanna learn weapons manipulations and how to be able to like, push your gun to its limit and extent, find a… How do you call it? A reputable competition shooter, right?

1:12:31.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

1:12:32.7 Nicholas Chan: Like, competition shooters are gonna teach you the best form for footwork, weapons manipulations and how to properly like, you know, walk and drive your gun like nobody else can. Like, they are the Formula One drivers of…

[laughter]

1:12:46.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: I was thinking… I was like, can I even walk with a firearm? I don’t know, I’m more accident prone. [laughter] I’m like, yeah. Yeah, that.

1:12:51.9 Nicholas Chan: So they are the Formula One drivers of the freaking… Of the gun world, right?

1:12:55.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yes.

1:12:55.2 Nicholas Chan: And then, you have the other side, which is, if you’re looking to use your gun for defense, right? Where you’re looking to use it for a defensive purpose, then you need to learn tactics, you need to learn human anatomy to understand how people die, because that’s how you stop people, and you need to understand how to properly use your surroundings further, right? Whether it’s a having good situational awareness or being able to know what difference between cover and concealment is. Stuff like that, so you can understand how to make you a better gunfighter.

1:13:23.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

1:13:24.3 Nicholas Chan: So, with that you want somebody who’s been in actual gunfights, right?

1:13:28.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

1:13:29.2 Nicholas Chan: So, you don’t want an instructor that’s seen YouTube videos of how to win gunfights, you want an instructor who’s actually been in gunfights and has won them and is now teaching you how to win gunfights.

1:13:37.2 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right.

1:13:37.9 Nicholas Chan: So, that’s how you rep your instructors. That’s how I personally rep them, they cost more money, but you’re learning from a guy who’s actually put this knowledge downrange and I can’t remember who made this quote, but the quote’s basically, “The lessons we learned today are written on the tombstones of others.” Those are those dudes, right? These are these dudes. So, defense, get someone who’s actually done it. Competition, get someone who’s doing it. You have Joe Farewell’s a perfect example. This dude in the last like three years…

1:14:07.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Blew up. Yeah.

1:14:11.3 Nicholas Chan: Huge strides, a freaking stud, this dude’s running it. Dudes like that, you have you.

[laughter]

1:14:17.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Meh, I can walk with guns. No, no, yeah.

[laughter]

1:14:20.9 Nicholas Chan: She’s like, “Meh.” [laughter] But you want people who are spending the money and trigger time to be able to be proficient at their art, you know?

1:14:30.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: And I try to take classes. Like, I just took another one basically. And so, like, my thing is that continual education is important to me. So, you also want your instructors out there learning the next thing or learning from those people that are better than them too. It’s like, they need to have like their egos… There are no egos, right? They need to be humble and that’s exactly I think Joe Farewell’s mastered that for sure. JJ and Christian and all those people out there teaching, they’re excellent, excellent people.

1:14:53.2 Nicholas Chan: Yeah. And it’s a perishable skill, like you’re not…

1:14:54.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Oh my god, yeah.

1:14:57.6 Nicholas Chan: If you stop shooting twice a week… If you go from shooting twice a week to once a month, you will notice it.

1:15:00.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Dude I went from PCC to pistol and my first match with pistol this past Saturday like, I forgot how to reload, so I’m like, cradling the firearm, cradling this magazine that weren’t going together, but I didn’t think about grabbing another one, so I just tried to make this work for like an hour and then it all came back to me, but it’s so bad…

1:15:15.8 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

1:15:16.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: So bad how quick that goes away. Good Lord.

[chuckle]

1:15:20.3 Nicholas Chan: I’m like that with… So our new marketing marketing director Cody Osborn, oh my god, this homeboy can shoot. Like, he can run a gun like nobody’s business, man. Like, this dude is fast, fast.

1:15:33.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Did he come from another company by the way?

1:15:35.3 Nicholas Chan: Yeah, he came from Walther.

1:15:36.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Walther. Okay, then I do know who you’re talking about. Okay.

1:15:38.9 Nicholas Chan: Homeboy is a smoke show man. Like, incredible. I usually don’t like… You know you always hear like, “Oh that guy’s a shooter.” And it’s like, “Yeah, sure.” [laughter] You see them shoot. You’re like, “I guess you’re alright.” So then I hear the same thing about this dude and at that event, at the gathering event where I met you, he shows up, it’s where I first met him too. So, they’re telling me you know, “Hey bro, this dude can shoot, this and that.” And I was like, “Yeah, sure whatever, he can shoot.” So I see him pick up a gun and he’s like transitioning from target to target, I was like…

1:16:11.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

1:16:12.8 Nicholas Chan: “I think he can shoot.” So I see him like, start practicing reloads and stuff. I was like… I tell my best friend I was like, “Yo, that dude can out-shoot me.” My friend’s like, “How do you know? I’ve seen you shoot like that before.” I was like, “Bro, I’m doing archery right now bro, I’m trying to hunt. I’m not keeping up with my competition shooting like that, that dude can smoke me bro.” [laughter] I was like maybe like a year ago I might have been able to keep up with him, but there’s no way I’m keeping up with him right now.”

1:16:37.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

1:16:37.7 Nicholas Chan: Sure enough we start running a cops and robbers drill, where it’s like one guy starts with his hands up, the other guy starts with his hands at his gun and then whoever… The guy with his hands up reaches down and the other guy has to react to the action.

1:16:51.1 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yup.

1:16:51.6 Nicholas Chan: We start running a cops and robbers drill and we’re just like.25 off.25 off.25 off, like we’re just like… And I’m sweating this thing and we’re done and then he’s like, man, you’re like… He starts gassing me up telling me I’m a good shooter. Yeah, yeah, cool, cool, cool. I walk away from him, I’m just thinking like, bro, this dude picked a gun up off the table with a holster he’s never used before. And I’m using my setup.

[laughter]

1:17:14.8 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah, yeah, I’m using mine.

[laughter]

1:17:17.0 Nicholas Chan: Like, I’m using my actual setup. This dude is using something he just picked up off the table and he is running my ass, man. Like, this dude is right there. I was like, [1:17:26.3] ____.

1:17:26.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s funny. That’s funny.

1:17:27.4 Nicholas Chan: Yeah.

1:17:28.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, I like the the background on the instructors. I think that’s funny like when people don’t test them or don’t ask them the questions, it’s like, you’re gonna wanna know and who are you learning from, ’cause it is pretty painful. And on our side, like, I’ve sat in some classes where I have to take them for certain credentials that I am like, what are we learning? It’s bad.

1:17:50.5 Nicholas Chan: And the good thing is, they’re not hard to vet. Like the dudes that can teach defense are far and few.

1:17:56.4 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah.

1:17:56.9 Nicholas Chan: And even the dudes that run competition like, most of that stuff… See like you know… It’s like referred person to person. Like, they’re not these big training companies, it’s nothing like that. These dudes are far and few. If they’ve got too many followers on Instagram, they’re probably not it.

[laughter]

1:18:13.0 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s probably… Yeah, that’s not the right one.

1:18:14.8 Nicholas Chan: Like, it’s stuff like that and sorry. And don’t be intimidated to take the course. Like, it’s… Like, everything it’s gonna be scary, but I promise you like, these are the nicest people you’ll ever meet. They’ve literally devoted their life to doing this, because this is what they know that they were made to do. Like, as crazy as that sounds a lot of those defensive guys, they take that whole saying where it’s like, “What’s a warrior to do in a time of peace? It’s train.”

1:18:41.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Right.

1:18:43.2 Nicholas Chan: That’s what these dudes legitimately believe and thrive on. Like, this is what feeds their soul.

1:18:48.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Yeah. Absolutely. Alright, well, we’ve covered a lot here. Is there anything that we didn’t touch on or anything else that you wanna leave people with that are listening whether it’s industry, concealed carry, hunting, anything else?

1:19:02.7 Nicholas Chan: No, just do what you’re passionate about, do it all the way, everything in excess.

1:19:05.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Everything in excess. I like that. Except Vegas, go calm in Vegas.

[laughter]

1:19:11.3 Nicholas Chan: Never.

1:19:13.7 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Never.

[laughter]

1:19:14.5 Nicholas Chan: Do it all the way. No one’s gonna make it out of this alive, do it all the way.

[laughter]

1:19:18.9 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: That’s true. That’s true. Live every day like it’s last. That’s what I try to do, besides work. But… So, Chan, how can people find you on Instagram? What’s your username? And then how can they go follow Taurus too and all that?

1:19:30.5 Nicholas Chan: So our Instagram is, @taurususa, Rossi, HeritageMFG, and mine is chan_notsoasian.

[laughter]

1:19:38.6 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: My favorite. [laughter] Alright, buddy. Thanks for joining me. I can’t wait to see you at some event soon and I’m looking forward to that buck, so you’ll have to send me a photo once you get that.

1:19:51.1 Nicholas Chan: Thank you. I appreciate you having me.

1:19:51.5 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Absolutely. Awesome. Thanks listeners, stay tuned for our next week’s episode of the Reticle Up podcast.

1:19:56.3 Kenzie Fitzpatrick: Thanks for listening to the Reticle Up Podcast. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast and on YouTube. Follow along on social media @reticleup or 3 Gun Kenzie.

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